The Mormon Church -- the Mormon Curtain...article and site...
About three weeks ago, while I was discussing my state of unbelief with my wife, I remembered something that I had not thought of for a long time, and had repressed from my memory when I was young. I got so emotional thinking back on this experience, as the memories came rushing to my brain, that I was in major tears discussing it with my wife. Here is the story.
Just before I turned 14 I was scheduled for my Bishop's interview. I was excited to become a "Teacher" and was looking forward to the interview. So, I walk into the Bishop's office and he starts by asking general belief questions and how are you doing, stuff like that. Then, out of the blue, he asks, "Do you masturbate?" Well, my mind started to race, cause, I had heard that word, but, honestly wasn't really sure what it meant. Anyway, I said "I don't know, what does it mean to masturbate?" Well, he proceeded to tell me what it meant. So, then he asks me again, "Do you masturbate?" I became so nervous and scared, that my vision became distorted, my face became flush and I started to sweat profusely. I whispered "Yes". I was devastated, I thought I was doing everything that "God" commanded. I thought I was a good boy. Now I was being told that what I thought was exciting, fun and joyous - was a SIN.
Well, the Bishop showed absolutely NO compassion, or sensitivity. He proceeded to tell me that this could lead to disfellowshipment or excommunication if I did not immediately get it under control. I sat in the interview so worried about being "cut off" from my family at death, that again, my vision became distorted and I started to sweat. At this point I felt like crawling under the chair, and screaming "Mom, Dad, help!!!" But, I was alone, with God's representative - I had no where to turn.
The Bishop then started to tell me that if I continue this practice of masturbation, I may end up doing this act with furniture, with animals, or, heaven forbid, with men or boys -- and that masturbation often leads to Homosexuality. I was so scared, I couldn't even respond to the rest of the interview, and the Bishop dismissed me.
Somehow, the next Sunday, my Dad ordained me a Teacher - even though I felt like the scum of the earth. For the next three years, I spent incredible brain effort to convince myself that I was not homosexual.
I am heterosexual, but, I no longer think it is a sin to be homosexual.
After discussing this interview with my wife, she understands why I will NOT let any of our children sit in an interview alone.
I believe that interview constituted emotional abuse. What do you think?
Just before I turned 14 I was scheduled for my Bishop's interview. I was excited to become a "Teacher" and was looking forward to the interview. So, I walk into the Bishop's office and he starts by asking general belief questions and how are you doing, stuff like that. Then, out of the blue, he asks, "Do you masturbate?" Well, my mind started to race, cause, I had heard that word, but, honestly wasn't really sure what it meant. Anyway, I said "I don't know, what does it mean to masturbate?" Well, he proceeded to tell me what it meant. So, then he asks me again, "Do you masturbate?" I became so nervous and scared, that my vision became distorted, my face became flush and I started to sweat profusely. I whispered "Yes". I was devastated, I thought I was doing everything that "God" commanded. I thought I was a good boy. Now I was being told that what I thought was exciting, fun and joyous - was a SIN.
Well, the Bishop showed absolutely NO compassion, or sensitivity. He proceeded to tell me that this could lead to disfellowshipment or excommunication if I did not immediately get it under control. I sat in the interview so worried about being "cut off" from my family at death, that again, my vision became distorted and I started to sweat. At this point I felt like crawling under the chair, and screaming "Mom, Dad, help!!!" But, I was alone, with God's representative - I had no where to turn.
The Bishop then started to tell me that if I continue this practice of masturbation, I may end up doing this act with furniture, with animals, or, heaven forbid, with men or boys -- and that masturbation often leads to Homosexuality. I was so scared, I couldn't even respond to the rest of the interview, and the Bishop dismissed me.
Somehow, the next Sunday, my Dad ordained me a Teacher - even though I felt like the scum of the earth. For the next three years, I spent incredible brain effort to convince myself that I was not homosexual.
I am heterosexual, but, I no longer think it is a sin to be homosexual.
After discussing this interview with my wife, she understands why I will NOT let any of our children sit in an interview alone.
I believe that interview constituted emotional abuse. What do you think?
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I was asked by the neighbor across the street--though in his capacity as Bishop.
I had no idea I was going to get hit with that question. It horrified me.
He asked "Do you masturbate?" I said "Huh?" He asked again "Do you masturbate? That is when you play with your penis." "No, I said (and lied) I don't."
This, from the man across the street. He was a neighbor, and I could not take him seriously as a clergyman. But there I was sitting there, while he asked. It embarrassed and mortified me. I could not believe a church would ask such a thing. Was this the church I had grown up in? When did this change occur? Why? I was mystified.
Later, my friends joked about it. No-one took it as a fair, valid, or "righteous" question. And it really was none of their business.
And in retrospect, why did they get so worked up about it? Why did they feel they could take ten percent of your income, and two years of your life, and ask such questions? Pretty remarkable.
I had no idea I was going to get hit with that question. It horrified me.
He asked "Do you masturbate?" I said "Huh?" He asked again "Do you masturbate? That is when you play with your penis." "No, I said (and lied) I don't."
This, from the man across the street. He was a neighbor, and I could not take him seriously as a clergyman. But there I was sitting there, while he asked. It embarrassed and mortified me. I could not believe a church would ask such a thing. Was this the church I had grown up in? When did this change occur? Why? I was mystified.
Later, my friends joked about it. No-one took it as a fair, valid, or "righteous" question. And it really was none of their business.
And in retrospect, why did they get so worked up about it? Why did they feel they could take ten percent of your income, and two years of your life, and ask such questions? Pretty remarkable.
The interview the bishop had with my 14 y.o. when he was to become a teacher was the last straw for me and the last time I ever set foot in an LDS Chapel. Because of some things that had happened before with the bishop bypassing me and going to my wife because of my doctrinal doubts, I had previously demanded to always be present whenever the bishop interviewed any of my kids or wife for anything. Thus, I sat in on his interview with my son where he proceeded to ask my son if he obeyed the law of chastity and also to describe in great detail several acts that would violate it.
My son is a pretty innocent young man with only a recent interest in girls now that he's fifteen. He honestly had no idea what the bishop was talking about when describing heavy petting and oral sex. I thanked the bishop for putting all those great ideas into his head but he did not back down, insisting that it was his right and duty to ask these questions and to know the answers to determine worthiness. We left the church that afternoon and have never been back.
I suspect Bishops secretly love being able to ask these sick questions and to imagine the youth before them in all sorts of compromising situations. More than that, they love the guilt trip they get to lay on anyone honest enough to admit their crimes. Bishops and SP's have way too much power and TBM's like I used to be willingly give it to them. Shame on all of us. If there's a God up there, he already knows everything about us and doesn't need any man to ferret it out or to explain exactly how to do it to our kids.
If you are the paterfamilius, tell your Bishop you WILL be present at all interviews with your wife or children or there WILL BE NO interviews taken. If there is a question to which you object, tell the man his question is out of line.
My son is a pretty innocent young man with only a recent interest in girls now that he's fifteen. He honestly had no idea what the bishop was talking about when describing heavy petting and oral sex. I thanked the bishop for putting all those great ideas into his head but he did not back down, insisting that it was his right and duty to ask these questions and to know the answers to determine worthiness. We left the church that afternoon and have never been back.
I suspect Bishops secretly love being able to ask these sick questions and to imagine the youth before them in all sorts of compromising situations. More than that, they love the guilt trip they get to lay on anyone honest enough to admit their crimes. Bishops and SP's have way too much power and TBM's like I used to be willingly give it to them. Shame on all of us. If there's a God up there, he already knows everything about us and doesn't need any man to ferret it out or to explain exactly how to do it to our kids.
If you are the paterfamilius, tell your Bishop you WILL be present at all interviews with your wife or children or there WILL BE NO interviews taken. If there is a question to which you object, tell the man his question is out of line.
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I had a bishop at BYU who in meeting with me for the first time, asked me how often I masturbated. I tried to tell him the truth, more or less. (I couldn't say twice or thrice daily because that would just make me look so gay and I didn't know then that I was gay so I kind of had to lie.) And then this meddling bishop wanted to know more. He wanted to know how I did it and what I thought of when I did it and in what positions I did it in. (Can you imagine a nascent gay boy answering those questions honestly???)
I was shocked to say the least; at a certain point it started to feel really perverted to have this guy asking me such personal questions. But he was asking them and at that point I still felt some sort of beholdence to the oligarchy to come clean. So to speak.
In the years that followed I willingly submitted to more and more probing questioning by men who felt they had some sort of entitlement to information about my personal life. Why? Long story for another time. But I did get to a point where I put an end to this completely innappropriate invasion of my privacy and in the process removed my garments, trashed them without cutting out the patches and tossed them in a dumpster behind my townhouse in Hollywood; mormonism went into the dumpster at the same time and it wasn't too long before I dumpsterized christianity as well.
Baby out with the bathwater? You bet. It's nobody's business but mine who I make love to or have sex with. Much of contemporary christianity has villified that which jesus said nothing about. People who make stuff up and attribute it to a guy who lived over two thousand years ago have no credibility with me. I reject their pronouncements and condemnations and dismiss them without a second thought.
I find it amusing that in an attempt to besmirch or insult somebody who is known to be heterosexual, there are those who will ask that person if they're gay. Why is that question asked? It's simple: because you think that there's something wrong with homosexuality and you believe that by implying that someone is gay you can quickly and effectively insult or harm them.
In asking the question of someone you know is heterosexual, you have actually said far more about yourself than you have about the person you're attempting to insult. Those who have no issues with homosexuality would never think to use such a question as a weapon. I like the question though, because it instantly tells me who I'm dealing with and from there on out it's like shooting fish in a barrel. You've just made it so easy for me...
All that aside, I just keep asking myself why there are still those stragglers who care so much about who I love or have sex with. It's such a personal thing. It's so deeply personal that I just can't imagine ever wandering into a stranger's life and making judgements therein about what they do sexually or who they do it with. In my mind, the perversion is with those who make it their business what others do in their intimate lives.
The poet Goethe said: Let each man sweep in front of his own door And the whole world will be clean
But there are those who insist on sweeping in front of my door and it amuses me to see them standing there with their brooms in hand; piety dripping from their weary brows. I say to them: "Take your brooms, put them between your legs and ride away on them. I have no use for your concern."
What a waste of a life; to be so consumed and unduly concerned with who I love or have sex with. My love and my sex is just like yours: it comes from my heart and sometimes if I'm lucky it lasts for awhile and fills me up and makes me happy. The details are only details; you plant your garden with the kinds of flowers you enjoy having around you and I'll do the same. You don't like pansies? Don't plant them.
But please don't be telling me that there's something wrong with planting pansies in my garden because it's none of your business. Truly, it isn't.
My body, my life, my choices
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